Moment Bondi killer questioned by cops over knives a year before horror attack

Footage captured by police shows Bondi killer Joel Cauchi speaking to police about his knife collection just 15 months before the nightmare attack.

Six people were killed and 10 others were injured in the attack at Westfield Bondi Junction on April 13, 2024.

Dawn Singleton, Yixuan Cheng, Faraz Ahmed Tahir, Ashlee Good, Jade Young and Pikria Darchia died in the incident.

Cauchi, 40, had gone on a rampage through the palatial shopping centre with a WWII knife purchased at a camping store before being gunned down by NSW Police Inspector Amy Scott.

A five-week coronial inquest into the deadly stabbing began last Monday, with the first week revealing never-before-heard details about the incident.

On Wednesday, the killer’s voice was heard by the public for the first time as Queensland Police body-worn camera footage was released to the court.

The footage was captured in in Toowoomba in January 2023 when Cauchi called the police after his father confiscated his knife collection.

“I’d like to report a crime... my dad has taken some of my property, it’s pretty expensive, he won’t give it back,” Cauchi could be heard saying in footage released this afternoon by the NSW Coroners’ Court.

“What kind of property are we talking?” an officer asked.

“Some military collectors’ items,” Cauchi replied.

“What kind of items, mate? Be a bit more specific,” the officer said.

“So, a US Ka-Bar... knives. So a US army knife or three or so,” Cauchi said.

Senior Constable Matthew McDonnell and Senior Constable Hope Porter had called to Cauchi’s parents’ Toowoomba home in January 2023 after he claimed his father had stolen his knives.

Body-cam footage of Joel Cauchi being questioned by police 15 months before his murderous rampage through Westfield Bondi Junction has been publicly released.

His father had given them to a friend over concerns for Cauchi’s mental health, with Cauchi described as being in a “rage” and assaulting his father as a result.

Constable McDonnell told Constable Porter that Cauchi had a “hard on” for his knives.

“This guy’s got a real hard on for his knives. So I keep saying, mate, look, you’re not going to get (them) back tonight. I said your dad’s not holding them permanently,” he said in the footage.

Cauchi said he couldn’t think of a reason why his dad would’ve removed the knives, and wanted police to return them as they were expensive and he couldn’t afford to replace them.

He even told the officers he wanted to have his father charged with theft.

Cauchi’s mum said it was the first time her son had pushed them around, and that he shouldn’t be doing that because her husband had open heart surgery about 12 months prior.

“He was in a rage … he is waking up at three o’clock in the morning and I think he’s hearing voices and he’s making noises and stamping his feet and everything and we try to get him to quiet,” she said.

“We’re just exhausted, we’re in our seventies, you know?”

The CCTV footage was played in court, though only part of it has been released for the very first time.

Cauchi appeared calm in the video, telling officers his father had taken his property.

Parents didn’t know how to get him help

Constable McDonnell said he talked to him about his mental health but Cauchi had told him the medication had heaps of side effects, and “he reckons life’s better without it”.

“His parents don’t seem to think so,” Constable Porter said.

His mum told Constable Porter that Cauchi was “top of the class” at university, but he was “really not well at the moment” and they didn’t know how to get him help.

She told the officer how Cauchi had been medicated, however when his care switched from the public to the private sector his dosage was reduced until he came off all psychotropic medications as of June 2019.

She said she thought the psychiatrist “should have been monitoring him” when he came off the medication, and that he needed to go to the hospital.

She didn’t think he was psychotic, but noted he wasn’t thinking straight.

“He really needs to see a doctor. He’s gone too far now. He doesn’t know he’s sick,” she said.

She said he was a “totally different person” when on medication. 

“I don’t know how we’re gonna get into treatment really. Unless he does something drastic. Like he nearly pushed me,” she said.

However, Constable Porter told her it was “not enough for us to take him up to the hospital and get him assessed”.

His mum said her husband had seen the knives when he first returned to Toowoomba and didn’t want Cauchi having them, but Cauchi said “(If) I wanted to do something, I could just go to the kitchen and get a knife”.

Newly released CCTV has captured the moment killer Joel Cauchi was pulled over for erratic driving in 2021, years before the fatal attack at Westfield Bondi Junction.

Cauchi’s dad told Constable Porter he let his son in with the knives as he didn’t want to put his son on the street, but he thought it was a “mistake”.

“I wanna look after my son, but I need to look after me and my wife,” Mr Cauchi said, and admitted he and his son were “both slightly hitting each other today”.

Cauchi told the officer his dad “started to hit my face”, so he was acting in self defence.

“He was very angry at me, like he was really upset at me,” Cauchi told the male officer.

Constable Porter told the other officer Cauchi needed to be made aware of what domestic violence means.

“So maybe if you have a chat with him and say ‘Oi, don’t be f***ing laying hands on your parents … Like that’s serious. Especially like they’re 75,” she said to Constable McDonnell.

More footage of Cauchi being pulled over for “erratic” driving in 2021 was also released.

Retail manager breaks down

The retail manager in charge of the emergency response on the day of the fatal Westfield Bondi Junction attack has broken down in tears after new CCTV was played in court.

Scentre Group operate a string of Westfields across Australia including Bondi Junction.

The nature, timing, and adequacy of the response by Scentre Group and its subcontractors Glad Group and Falkon Security will also be examined in the inquest.

Scentre Group retail manager Joseph Gaerlan gave evidence in court on Tuesday, where it was revealed he had heard a radio broadcast saying “Code black, code black, alpha, there’s lots of blood — you need to hurry” while he was in the bathroom in the centre management office.

No location was given, he said.

He told the court a code black indicates a threat, while alpha is to escalate that.

In the days after the attack he’d recalled hearing there was a man with a knife over the radio and a possible fatality, however he has since amended this statement upon reviewing CCTV of his actions on the day, saying that recollection was taken three days after the attack and that it was “such a blur”.

“I was highly emotional and highly stressed at the time and maybe my mind thought that happened,” Mr Gaerlan told the court.

If he had heard there was a man with a knife and a possible fatality, he said it would’ve been “almost certain it was an active armed offender (AAO) situation” and there would have been a “very different reaction”.

The court was shown CCTV footage of Mr Gaerlan rushing out of the bathroom after hearing the radio broadcast, and saw other staff heading down to the centre.

He went back to his desk to grab his blazer before going to the lifts and then walking towards the mall to see what was going on.

CCTV played in court showed him walking through the mall where a number of customers gathered around him asking what was happening, as retailers were also closing their shutters.

The customers all appeared calm: no announcements had been made at that stage. While walking towards the level five air bridge he heard a security controller say “code black, there’s an active armed offender, contact blue lights immediately, we need urgent backup” over the radio.

This was the first time he had heard there was an AAO.

He “turned on his heel” after hearing this and ran the other way, broadcasting to the control room about 3.37pm asking to confirm police had been contacted and to make PA announcements for an AAO situation.

He described the general radio channel as “congested”, but didn’t want to move to an emergency channel in case it isolated people from important communications.

The court was told he then returned to the centre management office to review CCTV, but upon realising it would take too long to find his logins, he again left the office to head to the CCTV control room.

Customers rushed into the lift that Mr Gaerlan had taken.

He was on the phone to the regional manager when he entered the control room about 3.40pm – about seven minutes after the attack began – and then had an exchange with one of the operators in the control room.

“I still did not have eyes on the situation, I recall being frustrated,” he told the court, saying he had asked if they knew the location, how many offenders and what weapons were involved.

“I was not provided with an answer at this time,” he said.

Another controller was able to flick through footage and determine there was only one offender.

“When the male confirmed … there was one offender, he showed me on the CCTV that a male in a green jersey was on the ground,” he said.

However it was unclear whether information of there being a single offender was relayed to police at the time.

‘Quite frustrating’: Manager breaks down

Mr Gaerlan broke down in tears, telling the court watching the CCTV was “frustrating”.

“Looking at CCTV to me is quite frustrating, the time that passed did not feel that way on the day,” he told the court, pausing as he teared up.

“It felt so quick, and you know, there was multiple pieces of information from different people, different sources. If I reflect back on how I was, I was one person trying to enact those duties and it did not feel as long as it was watching that.”

He apologised while wiping away tears.

He said changes had been made in response to the fatal attack, including additional training and a re-enactment of an AAO situation after hours on what worked well and what could be done better.

Security team members have also received body cams, while the security control room has been made “more efficient” to operate.

“Everyone on the day tried to respond … in the best way that we could given the time that was unfolding, and I really can’t stress that and I really feel frustrated watching CCTV because in my mind the reality of what unfolded did not span over a period of time the CCTV shows,” he said.

He teared up again later on when asked to give a sense of what he was feeling as the attack unfolded.

“I was completely terrified,” he said.

“I was terrified but knew what I needed to get done.”

He said he knew it doesn’t change what’s happened, but that he “sincerely believe that I did the very best I could do”.

Manager ‘terrified’

Mr Gaerlan said he was “terrified” when he made a call to escalate the situation to the regional manager.

In his role as the chief warden emergency responder on that day, Mr Gaerlan’s two main objectives were to get people to safety and information to police.

He had five major assignments, which were displayed on screen in court as “notify triple-0, CCTV, public address system, CMEO and liaison with police responders”. The centre management emergency override (CMEO) allows screens in the centre to portray messages and images.

He told the court that he understood once an AAO was confirmed it was a priority to enact these steps.

He was asked why he called the regional manager on the way to the CCTV room.

“From my perspective I was terrified and had thought that was the next step in my mind,” he said.

“I can’t talk to the experience of when it was unfolding and why I chose to make that call at that time, but in hindsight I knew it was a step I needed to take.”

He was asked if he was trying to get more help.

“I was doing the best I could with the information that I had … for me to call him was yes, it was ticking that box … escalate.”

Mr Gaerlan agreed that updates to senior staff should have been provided once the threat to safety had passed.

“Now it is very much understood that the events of 13 April were unprecedented, that they were violent and they unfolded very rapidly, and it’s important, you will appreciate, that all learnings be taken,” counsel assisting the coroner Emma Sullivan said.

Mr Gaerlan said he was doing the best he could with the information he was given, and in hindsight, had he had more information during that first radio call he may have been able to respond more timely.

Public announcements – yet to be revealed – were not made until about 3.52pm, and the court was previously told the operator tasked with making the announcement was “distressed and distraught”, leading people to be unsure whether she had been taken hostage or was making the announcement “under duress”.

It was not suggested any confusion at that stage would have made a difference to those who were killed.

Mr Gaerlan on Wednesday accepted the announcements could have been made earlier and he thought they were being made following his directions over the radio about 3.37pm while he was on his way back to the control room.

Ms Sullivan noted the last victim was attacked at 3.35pm, and Cauchi was shot about 3.38pm, so the delay in PA announcements “arguably may not have been of direct consequence”.

“But unquestionably it’s critical that they occur at the earliest point possible,” she said.

No staff in CCTV control room when attack began

The court was earlier told there were two staff members in the CCTV control room on level 4 on the afternoon of the attack, however, one had left about 3pm with his supervisor to undertake training on level 13 while the other left at 3.32pm to go to the bathroom.

This meant there was “no active CCTV monitoring in place” for the minute and forty seconds she was outside the room, and exactly 40 seconds later Cauchi attacked Ms Singleton, counsel assisting the coroner Peggy Dwyer SC earlier told the court.

By the time the woman re-entered the control room Cauchi had attacked eight people, three of whom later died.

The second security employee re-entered the CCTV control room by 3.36pm, however, all 16 people had been stabbed by then.

Ms Dwyer said it appeared the CCTV room being vacant at that time impeded Scentre Group’s response.

“Security staff were effectively behind the 8-ball – that is, they were then playing catch-up, catch up to understand what was unfolding,” Ms Dwyer said.

An evacuation alert was used rather than one that warned of an AAO, and Ms Dwyer said it appeared appropriately warning customers and staff “did not occur promptly” or “in the way it should’ve done” on the day.

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